Curse

House Silvermoon · Mar 26, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

I believe henchmen should be allowed into all elite areas. they pretty much deserve it after all that they do for us.

Trub · Mar 26, 2008, 04:44 PM // 16:44

I refuse to let Stefan have my shards.

DDL · Mar 26, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

From a personal perspective, I'm keen on the idea of Henching those areas purely because I'd like to get an idea of what they're like, before maybe trying with a PUG.

Yes, I don't want to be in a party full of idiots, sure. But I also don't want to join a party of competent people and be the idiot.

Given that it's apparently hard enough to join a party ANYWAY, turning up and saying "oh by the way, I have no idea what I'm supposed to do" is unlikely to be popular.

Wiki-ing beforehand is only half helpful: Henching it a few times (and failing a lot, certainly) would at least allow you to get a feel for the area, the quests, the obvious and not so obvious pitfalls, etc.

Sure, in an ideal world you could just say "I'd like to join a party but I've never done this before so you'll have to go slow and teach me" would get you a party of friendly helpful people. In reality, the vast majority of the time it will just get you a chorus of "LOL"s.

Ctb · Mar 26, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

I would like to see H/H allowed in these areas too. I've been itching to clear them for a long time now but just never bothered because I haven't the time to get in a group. I solo them for shard and ectos when I need them, but I'd really to actually do the, you know, QUESTS.

Not allowing H/H in UW and FoW = arbitrary limitation on gameplay = fail

They always wanted to force group play but then didn't put in a grouping interface, then put in a grouping interface that still completely sucked long after most of the people who were decent and competent were gone

Numa Pompilius · Mar 26, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

Could you name a few? Just so I know how easy it is in comparison.

I consider The Eternal Grove, Gyala Hatchery (unless you cheat and use the backroad exploit), Thirsty River, and that annoying crap mission in Nightfall where you had to drop exploding seeds at the feet of invulnerable demons and there were infinitely respawning mobs of demons every two minutes to be harder than UW or FoW.

Yes, those missions are easy with the correct build. So is UW and FoW, or at least the parts of them that I've been able to see with just three heroes (e.g. the first two quests + the beach and spider cave in FoW, and the first five quests in UW.).
Hell, the entire realm of terror is pretty much a copy of the FoW, but with tougher enemies and annoying environmental effects.

Personally I'd say that outside the Domain of Anguish the hardest area is Tombs, and I've completed that twice with heroes and henches.

sixofone · Mar 26, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDL

From a personal perspective, I'm keen on the idea of Henching those areas purely because I'd like to get an idea of what they're like, before maybe trying with a PUG.

Yes, I don't want to be in a party full of idiots, sure. But I also don't want to join a party of competent people and be the idiot.

Given that it's apparently hard enough to join a party ANYWAY, turning up and saying "oh by the way, I have no idea what I'm supposed to do" is unlikely to be popular.

Wiki-ing beforehand is only half helpful: Henching it a few times (and failing a lot, certainly) would at least allow you to get a feel for the area, the quests, the obvious and not so obvious pitfalls, etc.

Sure, in an ideal world you could just say "I'd like to join a party but I've never done this before so you'll have to go slow and teach me" would get you a party of friendly helpful people. In reality, the vast majority of the time it will just get you a chorus of "LOL"s.

I totally agree.

I bought GW because I had the option to solo, which suited me because I admit I am not good at video games and mashing keys. I loved Morrowind and Oblivion (to some degree), but wanted to try a MMO as a change of pace. However, when I got on, I had no idea wtf I was doing and - like the above poster - didn't want to be the "stupid n00b who got everyone killed!"

I started with Nightfall, and so got used to having Heroes. Then added Factions, and lastly Prophecies. (I won't do GW:EN. I disagree with the whole system they introduced where your profession simply doesn't matter, it's all about how much rank you have in specific factions.) So, come Factions Vizunah Square and I have to work with another (human) team (didn't know about using International district, nor about Wiki, then) and get slaughtered because the other team leaves. Over and over. Finally got helped by someone running it from the Foreign Quarter (I was Canthan in this run), and they helped me get thru with Masters.

Anyway, my limited experience with PUGs (Vizunah and Dzagonur Bastion) were miserable, and made me regret ever having decided to try a MMO. I have H&H'd since, but am frustrated that certain PvE areas are "off limits" to that style of play.

My one and only trial of a Guild was unfavorable, too, so I have been largely turned off by my whole "play with others" experience. And, like others, my time is taken up by other things - so when I can play, I don't want to wait around for friends to get on and join me. Nor do I want to leave anyone hanging when I need to log off.

I would like all of PvE to be H&H-able (even if suicide) because - after all - it's a game, not a social experiment. I get frustrated with the challenges, and sure there are times and missions where having just 1 live human helping would be a huge benefit, but I also enjoy my successes when I finally accomplish a mission on my own!

to OP: /signed

Numa Pompilius · Mar 26, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Best MMO (community wise) I've ever played was EVE.

Too bad the actual game is a crappy trade simulator with optional and truly god-awful combat. I tried the demo hoping for something like a multiplayer Independence War, and was stunned when I realized combat really was "click the enemy and watch the autocombat".

Pandora's box · Mar 26, 2008, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Although I don't think a hench/hero team would stand any chance, I must say I'm curious how those Sab builds would do in FoW/UW. And it would be a challence to try out new builds... And also a gold sink I'm afraid. But it would certainly add a new GW experience, so why not give it a try?

Numa Pompilius · Mar 29, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Sab's build works well in FoW (I used a modified version of it to do the first three quests and clear the forest, beach, and spider cave, and I see no reason why it'd not be possible to do more - I lost because I simply screwed up) but not very well in UW. I used a radically different build there to do the five first quests, and the sixth quest, Four Horsemen, is a brick wall to me with just three heroes.

roshanabey2 · Mar 29, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

the game is callled an MMO for a reason, massive MULTIPLAYER online.
I don't understand this community, if pugging is bad, surely you would want to improve it instead of completely getting rid of it, elite areas are the only places where people bother to pug in the first place, and if you are a newbie to elite areas don't tell them, i didn't and and I learnt that way, and I know that it is dishonest, but that is the only way they will pug with you.

Isileth · Mar 29, 2008, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by roshanabey2

the game is callled an MMO for a reason, massive MULTIPLAYER online.

The game is called a CORPG. Competetive Online Roleplaying Game.

Its also advertised as a game you can play with a team of AI. It is not a purely multiplayer game and its not advertised as one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roshanabey2

I don't understand this community, if pugging is bad, surely you would want to improve it instead of completely getting rid of it

That assumes people want to PuG in the first place.
Also a lot of the problems arent game releated, its the people. That cant be fixed.

But there are so many reasons people dont pug.
Time it takes to form a group, not wanting someone to go afk or quit, knowing you have to go afk yourself and not wanting to force than on others, wanting to play in an area no one else is, wanting to do something different in an area that no one else will, not running a proffesion anyone wants, not running a build anyone wants etc etc etc

Basically the AI lets you go off and play how and when you want. You cant fix or change pugs in anyway to allow that freedom.

t00115577 · Mar 29, 2008, 05:10 PM // 17:10

I agree 100%

9/10 pug teams = fail

Heros/Henches = win everytime, if you can use em properly

Numa Pompilius · Mar 29, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by roshanabey2

the game is callled an MMO for a reason, massive MULTIPLAYER online.

This is not my job. No-one pays me to help other players through the game. In fact I've paid to be able to play, and I play for fun. I choose not to play with other players because I want to play when and where and how I want. If I couldn't solo with heroes/henches I would not PUG, I'd simply not play at all.

EDIT: CyberNigma is right on the money why I'm playing GW instead of, say, re-playing Oblivion: the variety and content is much greater.

CyberNigma · Mar 29, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

MMOs/Online Games are to regular games what Television Shows/Serials are to movies. They have more content, last longer, and are usually consistently updated with even more content. The fact that it's multi-player does not matter to everyone. The best part of online games is you usually get more playtime and enjoyment out of the game than a standalone game. It would be a really poor decision to avoid playing online games just because you don't want to play with other people. Online games are where the content is. It's appeal isn't just because its multiplayer (it does give you the option of playing with others when you're in the mood), it's primary benefit is the longer gameplay and extended content/support.

roshanabey2 · Mar 29, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

That assumes people want to PuG in the first place.
Also a lot of the problems arent game releated, its the people. That cant be fixed.

But there are so many reasons people dont pug.
Time it takes to form a group, not wanting someone to go afk or quit, knowing you have to go afk yourself and not wanting to force than on others, wanting to play in an area no one else is, wanting to do something different in an area that no one else will, not running a proffesion anyone wants, not running a build anyone wants etc etc etc

Basically the AI lets you go off and play how and when you want. You cant fix or change pugs in anyway to allow that freedom.

But don't you see the community is making mountains out of mole hills, things like this happen in every day life. You get annoyed by someone leaving a pug or leeching, for 5 seconds and then just leave it as that. It is only a game and you should not be that ticked of by someone leaving.
The purpose of not allowing hench in elite areas is that they don't survive, simple as that. Sorrows Furnace is evidence, yes it is possibe, but you are ignorant to believe that it is easier with hench(edit: it is still hard). The only reason you have for hench being better than humans is that the player is new to the game and has been run to the area.

Numa Pompilius · Mar 29, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by roshanabey2

The purpose of not allowing hench in elite areas is that they don't survive, simple as that. Sorrows Furnace is evidence, yes it is possibe, but you are ignorant to believe that it is easier with hench.

Rubbish. I've not only completed Sorrows Furnace and Tombs (which is much harder than UW or FoW) with H/H, I've cleared more than half of UW and one third of FoW with just three heroes.
Give me ONE more hero or two more henches, and I'll complete UW and FoW too. Give me a full team of heroes and I'll complete any elite area in the game in hardmode.

The reason for not letting henches into elite areas is simply that they want to encourage grouping, but what it actually achieves is preventing people like me from even trying.

As for easier... Yes of course it's much easier with all-human teams. That's no reason to not let me even try.

roshanabey2 · Mar 29, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Rubbish. I've not only completed Sorrows Furnace and Tombs (which is much harder than UW or FoW) with H/H, I've cleared more than half of UW and one third of FoW with just three heroes.
Give me ONE more hero or two more henches, and I'll complete UW and FoW too. Give me a full team of heroes and I'll complete any elite area in the game in hardmode.

The reason for not letting henches into elite areas is simply that they want to encourage grouping, but what it actually achieves is preventing people like me from even trying.

As for easier... Yes of course it's much easier with all-human teams. That's no reason to not let me even try.

But you are looking at perspective of someone like you, who is good at micro-managing h/h. I am going to use the idiotic 'casual player' argument, with h/h they don't bother flagging and only use their hero's skills themselves when they really need to, i.e res. And if elite areas become h/h possible then less people will pug with your 'casual players' and they will die in UW/FOW with h/h. And no ones want to hurt the 'casual-player' ...whimper...whimper...

Sir Pandra Pierva · Mar 29, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

EVE owns.

its not hard to manage heros.

H/H for FoW for the pure fact i am tired of seeing every damn group be ursan. and my guild sucks ass at fow. Plus its moer fun to race my friend through hard areas with h/h to see who either gets the farthest or wins it first

ShoGunTheOne · Mar 29, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

what are you all complaining for?
Anet's just providing more areas for us to use Ursan,
isn't that what we do anyways?
Why hench when you just Ursan everything?
/end sarcasm

Sumi · Mar 30, 2008, 01:17 AM // 01:17

We recruited them,most of us have a full squad of them. It seems like to me that it would be a natural change to the game to allow a full group of heros to tackle the job. Henchies, I agree are not the best in the intell department, but if someone wants to use them, let them do a General Custer and get slaughtered. The heros are part of the game now, and are supposed to be our most loyal followers. I beleive that a group of 7 heros grouped with my main have a fighting chance, more so than with some of the zombies that hang out wanting to group, play around five minutes or so, and degroup themselves or worse, spend the entire mission bragging about their ubberness and getting the rest of us killed while they go AFK as soon as we zone in.